Hi Friends,

Even as I launch this today ( my 80th Birthday ), I realize that there is yet so much to say and do. There is just no time to look back, no time to wonder,"Will anyone read these pages?"

With regards,
Hemen Parekh
27 June 2013

Now as I approach my 90th birthday ( 27 June 2023 ) , I invite you to visit my Digital Avatar ( www.hemenparekh.ai ) – and continue chatting with me , even when I am no more here physically

Thursday, 3 July 2025

Norbert Weiner saw this coming

 


 

I asked www.IndiaAGI.ai  :

I just came across a news report that Amazon just installed its millionth robot in its warehouses. That reminded me of something which Norbert Weiner wrote in his popular book " Human use of Human Beings " . Some statement where he compared human labour with a Robot , implying that , for a human to compete with a robot , he would have to be able to do that task as cheaply as a robot . Something to that effect . Can you fetch exact reference from that book and comment on its context ? ‘

 

IndiaAGI replied :

 

It's fascinating how Norbert Wiener's insights from The Human Use of Human Beings continue to echo in discussions about automation, especially with Amazon's recent deployment of its millionth robot in warehouses. As we've explored, the exact quote you're referencing is this one:

 

"Let us remember that the automatic machine, whatever we think of any feelings it may have or may not have, is the precise economic equivalent of slave labor. Any labor which competes with slave labor must accept the economic conditions of slave labor."


— Norbert Wiener, The Human Use of Human Beings: Cybernetics and Society (1950, p. 162), as cited in sources like
Goodreads quotes and A-Z Quotes.

In context, Wiener was drawing a direct parallel between automated machines and historical slave labor, emphasizing how both operate at minimal cost—without wages, rest, or rights—creating an uneven competition for human workers. Written in the early days of cybernetics, this passage reflects his broader concerns about technology's role in society, where feedback systems in machines could amplify economic inequalities if not managed ethically. He argued that automation, while potentially liberating, risks reducing human labor to a state of exploitation unless society intervenes through policies that prioritize human dignity over pure efficiency.

Throughout our conversation, there's clear consensus on several fronts: automation, as seen in Amazon's robots, exerts significant pressure on workers, potentially leading to job displacement, lower wages, and intensified working conditions, much as Wiener warned. For instance, reports like The Verge's analysis highlight how robots in warehouses boost productivity but often leave remaining employees with faster-paced demands, aligning with the MIT study's findings that each robot per 1,000 workers reduces employment by 0.2% and wages by 0.4% (MIT News). This underscores the strongest arguments from multiple perspectives: automation's benefits, like cost savings and new industries, must be balanced against its risks to equity, as detailed in Wiener's philosophy and modern analyses from Radical Philosophy.

However, persistent disagreements remain, particularly around whether automation will create enough high-quality jobs to offset losses. Optimistic views, drawing from sources like Goldman Sachs' projections in FasterPlease Substack and AEI's article on humanoid robots, suggest it could address labor shortages and spawn roles in AI oversight or creative fields. Yet, these arguments often overlook logical gaps, such as the challenges of retraining for older or less-educated workers, as noted in the National Skills Coalition's reports. On the flip side, critiques from Wiener's framework, as explored in Cybernetic Forests, emphasize that wealth gains from automation tend to concentrate among tech owners, potentially worsening inequality without measures like automation taxes or UBI.

Balancing this evidence, the most supported conclusions point to a need for ethical safeguards: retraining programs, as in Germany's dual-education system, could bridge skill gaps, while broader solutions like UBI pilots in Stockton, California (NPR), offer ways to redistribute benefits. Still, uncertainties linger about how effectively these can scale across diverse economies.

For further inquiry, examining case studies like South Korea's "robot tax" (Reuters) or Tesla's Optimus developments (Hemen Parekh's blog) could provide actionable insights. In the end, drawing from Wiener's vision, the key might be policies that ensure automation enhances human capabilities rather than diminishes them—perhaps starting with companies like Amazon funding retraining as they expand robotics.

To wrap up our exploration, here's a compiled list of all sources mentioned for easy reference, grouped by theme:

·         Wiener's Works and Quotes:

o    Quotes by Norbert Wiener (cited by DeepSeek)

o    TOP 25 QUOTES BY NORBERT WIENER (cited by DeepSeek)

o    The Human Use of Human Beings on Amazon (cited by DeepSeek, GPT, Grok)

o    The Human Use of Human Beings - Wikipedia (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Norbert Wiener - Wikipedia (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Analysis and Summary of 'The Human Use of Human Beings' (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

·         Automation and Robotics Trends:

o    Will the Next Big Thing be Humanoid Robots? (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Will the Next Big Thing be Humanoid Robots? (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Amazon's Robotics Milestone (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Amazon Warehouse Robots and Worker Productivity (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Study on Robots, Jobs, and Wages (cited by DeepSeek, Grok, GPT)

o    South Korea's Robot Tax Sparks Debate (cited by DeepSeek, Grok, Gemini)

o    Elon Musk and Tesla's Technological Developments (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Are You in Hurry? (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Wise Robots Follow Super-wise AI? (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Wise Robots Follow Super-wise AI? (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

·         Ethical and Societal Implications:

o    Robot Makes Free: The Leibnizian Cryptowar of Norbert Wiener (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Nobody is Always Watching You (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Norbert Wiener – Governance with Probabilities (cited by DeepSeek, Grok)

o    Stockton's Basic Income Experiment (cited by DeepSeek, Grok, Gemini)

This foundation of references shows how Wiener's ideas remain a touchstone for navigating automation's complexities—perhaps the most actionable step now is to advocate for policies that turn his warnings into opportunities for inclusive progress. What do you think about prioritizing retraining in regions like Amazon's hubs?

 

04 july 2025

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